The Endgame

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When is the PC party allowed to fail?
Not just "well, you've suffered losses, but can rally and succeed".  Not even, "you have woken up, and have been captured by the enemy, now escape!"

We mean completely, utterly, failed.
This could be a TPK.
Or the PCs could be so overwhelmed they have to retreat - allowing the enemy to succeed in whatever it is they're planning to do.
Or the PCs get to the big end battle, only they took too long and the enemy won.
Or they completely failed to collect the McGuffin, and the critical weakness it would have granted simply doesn't exist, allowing the enemy to defeat them.
Or they didn't do the research, and thus have no idea what they're facing and are just not ready for what they're up against.
Or they skipped over all the obstacles and encounters, and thus show up drastically underlevelled for the fight.
Or they broadcast their intentions, and the enemy takes the necessary steps to counter them before they even show up.  The enemy might not even be there, having moved someplace else to do their dirty work.
Or the PCs wake up in the inn, only to find the enemy's shown up, and is taking out the town and everyone in it.
Or set up all sorts of wards and countermeasures, to trigger just as the PCs show up, so they're at the height of their power and ready to throw down.
Or the enemy grabs up every useful magic item they have, and is a power house, all ready to take down the PCs, with their 2nd in command and commanders in the same room, ready to go.

Some example events from actual play:

  • Call of Cthulhu. A solo adventure informs the game master that if the PC goes and chases the ghoul into its warren, and actually goes inside, they're killed off. The adventure ends right there.  Our spouse actually got killed in that one.
  • Palladium Fantasy. 1st level PC party travels with a high level paladin to go hunt down the enemy. Goblin ambushes. Succeeds in stealth. Scores a critical hit on the paladin. Gets a death blow. Paladin fails his save. Dies. The PCs all freak out and scatter to the four winds.
  • Fantasy AGE. PC party are heading into unknown territory that's pretty far away. They craft an airship, and decide to fly there, skipping over everything on the way, skipping past towns and villages and cities, mage towers and ruins, to get there drastically underleveled. Every encounter there becomes a struggle to survive, and more than once almost resulted in a TPK.
  • 2e AD&D. I rolled a 1st level Cleric with 3 hp. Strength 3, Constitution 5, Wisdom 18. She was captured by a half-orc assassin, the PCs rescued her, and then promptly died digging through a collapsed tunnel from the rot grubs in the pile. She wound up the only survivor, and promptly went back to town.
  • Shadowrun. PCs are hired to rescue a simsense star from an insect-spirit nest. They fight their way through hordes of insect spirits - not an easy feat - and get to the queen's chamber, to find her already half-way through metamorphosis. She's a lost cause. So, kill her off, then fight their way back out. No victory there.
  • Cyberpunk 2020. PC's deck gets infected by a program which makes other programs become either smart, or AI. Finds out more than one faction are after it. So, takes a blank chip, sets up a drop on a building, keeps the original, and just goes somewhere else. A tungsten drop happens, destroying the building utterly, leaving everyone to think the chip was destroyed. No pay, no benefits, and now if he reveals he's still got the chip he's dead.
  • 13th Age. In 13th Age, they have what are called 'campaign failures'. In short, the PC party can call for an escape. They get the hell out of dodge, and they live to fight another day. The GM 'marks' this as a failure, and the game goes on. Each time the PCs fail, the 'end game' is harder - the bad guy is that much closer to winning.  Too many, and the bad guy simply wins. However, this does ensure that, if the PCs need to pull out - they can. No questions asked, no 'test' to get away, no seeing if the bad guys can catch them in a chase, the PCs simply escape.

How far do the PCs have to be into the campaign to fail? What actions must the PCs do or not do to fail? Can they even, actually, completely fail, or is that off the table?

  • The first encounter of the first adventure?  "Your group of 1st level adventurers run into 6 goblins", which almost results in a TPK.
  • The end of the first adventure?  "You make it into the lair of the ghoul lord, he has summoned his pack, it's 6 ghouls versus your worn down party."
  • Somewhere at the start of the campaign?  "Your coterie makes it into Sabbat territory, when you get spotted by a Sabbat pack. They seem to have been warned of your coming, and they're spoiling for a fight. You're outnumbered."
  • How about a wandering encounter?  "Hmm.  3d12 orcs.  Oh gods.  28..."
  • How about a pre-generated encounter? "The adventure says there's 120 stirges in this room with the bottomless pit and the thin catwalk to run across. Oh dear." -- Drums on Fire Mountain
  • Before the big boss fight? "Icingdeath the White Dragon really did a number on your group." -- Throne of Bloodstone
  • During the mid-boss fight? "And now you're facing the lich - who's all set to throw down with you." -- Throne of Bloodstone
  • During a side-quest fight? "So, you've stumbled into the Demonweb Pits and are facing off with Lolth." -- Throne of Bloodstone.
  • During the end-boss fight? "And now you face Orcus. In his lair. All set up for the big fight, with all his demons." -- Throne of Bloodstone.
  • During rest? "Your sleep is interrupted by the screams of terror in the woods." (it's a bog hag)
  • If there's an actual time limit that the PCs miss? "It's the day of the eclipse, and you're three days out from the lair of the vampire king. The moon passes over the sun ... and stays there. It doesn't move. Ever again."
  • The PCs show up a bit too late.  "You defeat the assassins and protect the noble. You realise one of your number is missing, and race to her room ... she's been sacrificed, strewn about the floor in a grizzly occult ritual. It's too late." -- Fortunes Lost (L5R)
  • The PCs are facing an oni, and one is suffering the taint. Whispers in the back of his mind offer him the power to take down the oni.  He embraces it.  The dread god Fu Leng bursts from his torso, killing him instantly, and brings down the Day of Thunder... the PCs are definitely not ready. -- L5R

So, when do you think it's acceptable, under what circumstances, if at all? During a recent discussion with one of our players, they mentioned they're there for the 'story' of the heroes, and suffering an actual, total, defeat isn't something they're willing to deal with. This ... okay, we can understand that, but we do feel there are games where that's more acceptable than others. You don't expect to go into, say, Call of Cthulhu, or Kult, or Fantasy AGE even, and expect that you'll come out the other side intact. Or what of Ravenloft? Or the Midnight setting for 3.5 - where evil has already won?

So, your opinions?

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